tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post6828665359997303361..comments2023-12-23T02:10:09.875-05:00Comments on howl at pluto: Was Zionism a case of 'national liberation'? (Walzer vs. Falk) LFChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13551197682770555147noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-10077884869777379562016-03-17T01:49:10.505-04:002016-03-17T01:49:10.505-04:00"would the Arab states have intervened anyway..."would the Arab states have intervened anyway"? Maybe. Possibly not if the local Palestinians had come out on top (or maybe even then - did Syria, Jordan or Egypt have claims on Palestine?)<br /><br />I have no particular dog in this fight - it would have been tragic either way, and the middle ground of partition was unsustainable.Peter Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13289172253358199028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-8355287071531050152016-03-16T21:11:00.457-04:002016-03-16T21:11:00.457-04:00p.s. anecdote: my uncle, now 90 yrs old (or therea...p.s. anecdote: my uncle, now 90 yrs old (or thereabouts), was one of the volunteers who went from the U.S. to fight w the Israeli army (the Haganah, I guess it was called at that pt) in the '48 war. I don't raise these issues w him and he does not read this blog, which is just as well in this case.LFChttp://howlatpluto.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-83498280291049336212016-03-16T21:04:54.401-04:002016-03-16T21:04:54.401-04:00looks very much like a standard colonialist settle...<i>looks very much like a standard colonialist settler war</i><br /><br />In some respects, no doubt.<br /><br /><br /><i>The defeat and dispossession prompted Arab state intervention</i><br /><br />But would the Arab states have intervened anyway, after the declaration of the state of Israel, even if the issue of Palestinian dispossession had not existed on the same scale? Perhaps such a counterfactual is pointless, I don't know. But what I'm trying to get at is to what extent the intervention was prompted by Palestinian dispossession and to what extent it was prompted by the Arab states' opposition to the creation of the state of Israel under any circumstances.<br /><br />As I pointed out in the other comment thread, there is at least one difference betw. colonial settlement in the U.S., say, and Israel, and that is that there was a historical connection btw Jews and Palestine/Israel. I'm not saying that that justified dispossessing the Palestinians of land they lived on, but it does explain why, e.g., the Uganda plan went nowhere. <br /><br />LFChttp://howlatpluto.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-55993366010110845342016-03-16T19:24:14.495-04:002016-03-16T19:24:14.495-04:00I just googled "Palestine 1947". Wikiped...I just googled "Palestine 1947". Wikipedia goes into a lot detail on particular incidents, but the gist is that there was ongoing communal violence, it ramped up after November, the Palmach was better organised, equipped and directed, Palestinian militias were defeated and Palestinian civilians forced out of key areas. The defeat and dispossession prompted Arab state intervention, and their defeat led to a further round of expulsions (which continued, IIRC, up to 1955).<br /><br />My point is that this looks very much like a standard colonialist settler war, of the sort that was commonplace in the US or Australia, or also like the ethnic sorting that marked the end of World War II.Peter Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13289172253358199028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-40384192561710597502016-03-15T23:50:04.372-04:002016-03-15T23:50:04.372-04:00Which wikipedia entry is this? Just so I can look ...Which wikipedia entry is this? Just so I can look it up at some point. LFChttp://howlatpluto.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-132520298120231193.post-12845887732733297692016-03-15T23:40:12.076-04:002016-03-15T23:40:12.076-04:00The standard narrative conflates the initial perio...<br />The standard narrative conflates the initial period after UN partition plan was adopted (November 1947) with the period after May 1948 when Arab armies intervened. In that six months, wikipedia notes, "the "Palestinian Arab military power was crushed" and most of the population in the combat zones was fleeing or had been driven out..". It was that defeat and displacement that prompted intervention.Peter Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13289172253358199028noreply@blogger.com